Oxygen Basic
Information => Open Forum => Topic started by: kryton9 on September 24, 2012, 10:21:46 PM
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I did my normal scan of languages the last few weeks downloading and testing. C is still number one in the tiobe index and I think the reason is that it is the only real cross platform language that can be compiled on the most devices.
So instead of writing a C emitter, why not develop Oxygen in C? It opens up a whole world of libraries we could use to make Oxygen the cross platform compiled Basic for the most devices without importing code, adding to it in Oxygen and then outputting out to C again to make it cross platform. This way Oxygen itself would be native on each platform.
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I did my normal scan of languages the last few weeks downloading and testing.
I was wondering which languages you scan & download?
if is not a problem ;)
Hmm about writing Oxygen in C, i am not 100% sure about that :-\
I don't know why no-one from FB comunity not respond here because oxygen is developed in
FreeBasic,right?
Ohh maybe is because main ocupation of those peoples are games only... ::)
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hi,
did you know, if you learn FreeBasic, you get a free vacation in the hell!
it is the worst Basic dialect at all. :P
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hi,
what we need isn't a c-emitter or a cross platform, what we need is a beat on our head.
after the beat we are multi- platform c-emitter experts.
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:o
FB -the worst basic...heh maybe ;D
Yeah...look because of this i have somewhere a rubber hummer BUT
i can't find them ::)
and yes i agree with you Peter who need C -D - F emiter ;D
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yes Aurel, you have got the proper opinion about this theme.
may god us shelter.
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Ahh situation is like is,something like 'status quo'...
low interest is everywhere,i am just lookin' in one programming forum
where someone post topic in style - where are all those people around?
bip.. :)
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I did my normal scan of languages the last few weeks downloading and testing. C is still number one in the tiobe index and I think the reason is that it is the only real cross platform language that can be compiled on the most devices.
So instead of writing a C emitter, why not develop Oxygen in C? It opens up a whole world of libraries we could use to make Oxygen the cross platform compiled Basic for the most devices without importing code, adding to it in Oxygen and then outputting out to C again to make it cross platform. This way Oxygen itself would be native on each platform.
Suppose that there is already so much work that went into O2 (written in FB) that it would slow down the whole project even more if he would write it again in C.
If I remember correctly Charles started (many moons ago...) to convert O2's FB code into O2 code.
Don't know if he stopped or if he is still working on it.
If he has a C emitter and the emitting code is human readable than he could do whatever he wants, keep writing O2 in O2 or C.
Then again, writing a compiler is not trivial and takes a lot of time.
Decisions you do today will influence your mindset and with that the health of the project in the future.
If there is a even future for the project depends on the decisions you do today.
So you are back full circle.
It's a catch 22...
Just make the wrong decision and boom a few month (or years) later you realize how stupid this decision was and you have to start all over...
It's terrible.
Been there, done that.
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It's a catch 22...
Just make the wrong decision and boom a few month (or years) later you realize how stupid this decision was and you have to start all over...
It's terrible.
Been there, done that.
Add me to your list. :-[
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Aurel the languages I download and reevaluate are Java, FreePascal and FreePascal with Lazarus IDE, Different C/C++ IDE's with different compilers, wxDevC++, CodeBlocks with MingW32, TinyC, Visual Studio Express the latest, QT, GO from google. Then I do game engines, Irrlicht, Unity, UDK(Unreal), Java Monkey Engine.
Here is an interesting read about how dirty Microsoft played in the passed. I am not sure if they are as evil as they were.
http://openglbook.com/the-book/preface-what-is-opengl/
To get to the Microsoft Evil with some short history, Scroll down to sections: An Open Standard, OpenGL on Windows, DirectX, The Beginning of the “API Wars” and finally Driver Debacle
Happy ending it backfired on them and we now have opengl 4.x, but they almost killed off OpenGL.
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Kent..
ohh gee re-evaluate again why?
You already know what is what,right?
nothing new,better,ultra-cool ...etc...
I download again PellesC...heh..why?...don't ask me :-X
There comes Peter 'hit myself with hammer in the head' ...and he is probably right...
Oxygen is very cool and great project and require our support,right?
To much philosophie cannot help than coding..testing...etc....
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'hit myself with hammer in the head'
lol :D :D :D
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I had made a couple of games with PelleC, that was not pleasure!
Stay with Basic, Aurel.
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ok..no worry
i don't have in plan make games...especialy not in C, even i have few sources
in C with gdi sample games ;D
By the way basic is far better option for me because i can figured what
is what and when i see all this {{{ }}}} i get crazy and >:(
;D
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The only reason C is still number 1 is because it is cross platform and Windows, Linux and I assume OSX are written in it. I think until these Operating systems are rewritten in a new language we are stuck in this swamp.
I propose to the c++ committee that they start fresh with a new language, call it c-- this means no c legacy, no bloat, a modern language that taps into the power of what is here now and on the horizon.
Then all the operating systems be rewritten in this new c-- and we once and for all can move forward at light speed with elegant operating system apis and other higher level languages that can be built with c--
Go in that respect is interesting. It is moving quickly on the development side, but people are adapting existing libraries based on c/c++ to go instead of writing new go based libraries. I guess they are stuck because the OS's are in c, again. So this is the catch 22 we are in.
I see limits to Oxygen already because of not going with a more robust language to build on. Charles is overcoming these but stuck using Macros and these in turn will spread deeper and deeper and come to a dead end down the road. Especially if trying to take it cross platform, perhaps the c emitter would be a solution around this problem.
I was reading up on assembly to see if I can get more insight into Charles' mind and see that macros are heavily used in that world. So I understand that Charles is coming and developing Oxygen from this low end up instead of looking at Oxygen from a higher level down.
Making a language and compiler is something I can't do, so I applaud anyone who gets as far as Charles has done, so don't take my critiques as being negative. I just write them hoping to make Oxygen as powerful as I know it could be and it really could be the language to change the world with the wonderful clean syntax of basic but with the power of any language out there.
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I propose to the c++ committee that they start fresh with a new language, call it c-- this means no c legacy, no bloat, a modern language that taps into the power of what is here now and on the horizon.
Then all the operating systems be rewritten in this new c-- and we once and for all can move forward at light speed with elegant operating system apis and other higher level languages that can be built with c--
C-- (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/C--) is already taken. You have to come up with your own name :P
Go in that respect is interesting. It is moving quickly on the development side, but people are adapting existing libraries based on c/c++ to go instead of writing new go based libraries. I guess they are stuck because the OS's are in c, again. So this is the catch 22 we are in.
That's the point:
A language has zero market acceptance if there is no binding to libraries or code written in C.
I hope that there will be more real go libraries over time.
(as I like the language...)
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If I concentrated on a C translation of Oxygen, and did nothing else, it would probably take about 6 to 9 months. (about 1500 hours). I am gradually gaining in C experience, but I think developing in FB is somewhat easier. The String handling in Basic is a major advantage, so I would like to defer this exercise until the code stops mutating so much. I also anticipate that a working C emitter will greatly reduce the length of this task.
Re macro:
The well-disciplined use of macros should not cause any problems. If you like, you can call them templates and in-line functions :).
I believe C++ started out as a set of C macros, and these eventually became Classes and other C++ constructs
Charles
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C-- is already taken.
Great, another acronym to remember. :o